Why Couples Should Take It Slow When Talking About Their Finances

On this episode of The Long View, Ramit Sethi, personal finance expert and author, breaks down the ways couples can talk about money, why we struggle with the topic, and key takeaways from his latest book, Money For Couples: No more stress. No more fights. Just a 10-step plan to create your Rich Life together.

Here are a few excerpts from Sethi’s conversation with Morningstar’s Christine Benz.

Christine Benz: I want to get into some best practices for couples around money and communication. In your book, you really walk people through how to do this, how to do this better. One thing I picked up is that you want to take it slowly. You also want to bring an aspect of like, you don’t want to be too heavy about it, and you don’t want to come at it from a point of conflict or accusations. Talk about couples should bear in mind when they want to discuss their money, but want to keep cool heads while they do so.

Ramit Sethi: Money should be fun. The point of money is not to accuse each other. The point of money is not even to save it. The point of money is to use it to live a rich life. What I talk about in the book, in part, is reconceptualizing our relationship with money. And then I get really specific in terms of the actual words to use. I’ll give you an example of something that a listener could use right now. I call it “your first positive money conversation.” And I named it specifically because most of us actually have not had a positive conversation. We only fight about it with our partner: “I can’t believe you spent that much at Target.” And then we go to bed, sleep on opposite ends of the bed, wake up, pretend it never happened, and wait for that same fight to come up six weeks later. What a horrible way to live with money. So, your first positive money conversation has four parts and it’s very quick. You say, “Look, you know what? I realized that when we talk about money, it’s not really going the way I want it to. I don’t think it’s going the way you want it to, either. It feels like we’re both in our corners, we’re getting in fights, and honestly, I feel like I might have been a little overbearing in the past, and I want to change that.”

That’s part one. You’re opening up, you’re telling them why you want to make a change and maybe even sharing a little vulnerability. Part two: how I feel. “Right now, when I think about money, I feel scared, overwhelmed. I feel behind. How about you?” Here, you’re opening up more on an emotional level and you’re getting your partner involved. It’s not a monologue, it’s a dialogue.

Third: how I want to feel. “I want to feel confident. I want to feel calm. I want to feel connected. How about you?” Paint that picture. And finally, “When should we talk about money next? How about next week?” That’s it. Give each other a big old kiss, a nice hug, and call it a day. We do not have to talk about that $32 charge on Amazon right now. We have a lifetime. What we do have to do is connect emotionally. Both of us participate, set some logistics for when we talk next time, and then just give each other a big hug. That’s what these conversations are about.

How Couples Fail to Communicate

Benz: As I was listening to some of the sharing that you encouraged couples to engage in, where you were urging them to do a 10-year bucket list, for example, it struck me that perhaps couples are undercommunicating about big picture, happy visions for their lives, period, that they’re not just undercommunicating about money, but they’re also just not envisioning their futures together. Do you find that it goes deeper than money, some of this undercommunication?

Sethi: Always, always. One of the great honors I have is having couples come on my podcast every single week. We spend hours and hours together, and they share everything. They share real numbers. They share things that they wouldn’t tell their best friends. And that’s because they trust me. I’m there to help them, not to judge them. You will find some shocking things. Like, for example, I’ve spoken to many men, and after speaking to them in their relationship for one hour, two hours, three hours, I’ll say, “I noticed something. I noticed you haven’t asked your wife a single question today.” And he’ll just kind of stare at me. I go, “Do you ever ask her questions? Now think about it.” He’ll go, “No.” Isn’t that striking? Isn’t that deep? That this is not just one couple or one person. This happens repeatedly. In a relationship, this is an example of gendered behavior. There are so many other types of patterns I see. He simply will not ask her a question about anything. So, what I have discovered with couples, specifically as it relates to money, is most couples treat money like they are driving in the fog, only able to see 30 feet ahead. We focus on this month. We derive most of our information and feelings about our finances from what’s in our checking account.

We’re routinely surprised by how much our holiday gifts cost us, even though it happens every single year. Why is this? Why are we operating like this? Why are we surprised? Are we clueless? Are we dumb? No. We simply live month to month. Few of us even plan six months ahead, much less a year or 30 years ahead. And this is what the financial industry does not understand. They constantly use language that simply does not match how human beings operate. What are your financial goals? Well, that’s not how people think about stuff. So, if you ask that question, they’re going to give you some made up answer: “Well, I think we’d like to retire at some point.” No, you’re asking the wrong question. You’ve already activated a bad answer because of your question. This is where the financial industry could really understand people on a deeper level and ask better questions. For example, planning ahead for something you don’t like is a double whammy. It’s like asking someone to plan ahead for a root canal: “Hey, when are you planning that root canal in 2060?” Why would I? I hate root canals, and I certainly hate planning for 30 years from now. This is why we have to make money fun and connective, and give people permission to spend on the things they love. Because again, the point of money is not to save it. It’s not even to invest it. It is to use it to live a rich life. Yes, you should invest. But if you start by telling people, “Oh, you’re so bad, your IRA isn’t funded enough,” they’re going to check out right away.